BEREA, Ohio — Jim Schwartz has 15 minutes.
As the Browns defensive coordinator sits down in a small office at the team’s Berea practice facility for this interview, whiteboard behind him, he’s straight to the point.
It’s easy to imagine him the same way in the Browns’ defensive meeting room just down the hall. Efficient. Determined. Serious. Accomplishing one task only to move on to the next.
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It’s also how Schwartz has approached another losing season: unchanged standards, no patience for excuses, no matter the circumstances.
“They don’t pay us for the easy (expletive),” Schwartz told cleveland.com. “I tell our coaches that all the time: They don’t pay us for the good times.”
Despite the Browns’ 4-12 record and key personnel changes, Cleveland’s defense remains among the NFL’s best — No. 2 in total yards allowed this season and, since Schwartz took over three years ago, the league’s only unit to average fewer than 300 opponent yards per game.
The consistency has held through a playoff run and three- and four-win seasons alike, a reflection of a philosophy built for adversity, not comfort.
While he’s efficient, Schwartz is also a “storyteller,” as Browns safeties coach Ephraim Banda said a few weeks ago. Considering Schwartz has seen it all in the NFL, holding every role from unpaid intern to head coach over his three-decade-long career, that’s not surprising.
It’s all a part of how Schwartz has gotten his defense here.
And it’s a story that requires more than 15 minutes, but Schwartz will do his best to capture it all.
A detour
It’s a twist of fate that Schwartz is back in Cleveland at all. It’s where he first began his NFL career as an unpaid intern during the Bill Belichick years in the 1990s.
After the 2020 season, Schwartz stepped away from being the defensive coordinator of the Philadelphia Eagles, where he won a Super Bowl in the 2017 season.
At the time, he didn’t feel like he could take on coordinator responsibilities after his “thyroid went kaput” as he described it in his introductory press conference with the Browns in 2023.
Schwartz detailed how it took about 18 months to get his numbers to where they needed to be. It was a frustrating time for a high-energy coach, as he struggled to sleep while experiencing intense hot and cold spells, and also underwent numerous eye surgeries.
But as Schwartz worked to regain his health, he still didn’t step away from the game entirely.
He just took on a different role under Mike Vrabel, then the head coach of the Tennessee Titans, serving as a senior defensive assistant in the 2021 and 2022 seasons.
“I thought I was going to be away from the game, but then Vrabes pulled me in, and it started off with, ‘Come on, just come over one day a week, you can go on Zoom the rest or whatever,’” Schwartz said. “And then it just increased more and more and more.”
The two worked together again in 2024, as Vrabel served as a consultant for the Browns after he was fired by the Titans and before he landed the head coaching gig in New England before this season.
“I tried to help Vrabes out as much as I could,” Schwartz said. “I mean, my role there was a lot like Vrabes’ was here. I think he sort of patterned it like that.
“I was not intimidating. I was not trying to get anybody’s job. And I was good at, like, ‘Hey, look, you ever think about this?’ or ‘Hey, this is what I used to do in that situation.’”
By the time Cleveland was ready for a defensive change, parting ways with coordinator Joe Woods after the 2022 season, Schwartz was feeling healthy enough to get back to his usual workload.
When the Browns hired Schwartz in January 2023, the excitement was there early given his attack-first system and the Browns’ personnel on defense — one key player in particular.
‘To play for Jim has been an honor and a privilege’
The Browns’ defense and Schwartz’s success unequivocally begin with Myles Garrett.
And for a large chunk of this lost season, Garrett has been on the verge of the NFL sack record, with a second NFL Defensive Player of the Year award firmly in his sights.
Schwartz himself is adamant that as soon as Garrett got to 17.5 sacks, a mark he officially hit in the Browns’ 24-10 win over the Raiders in Week 12, that he felt like the record of 22.5 would fall any week.
The record has been the main topic of discussion in the five weeks after.
Garrett is currently at 22 sacks for the season, and needs one more to break the record set by the Giants’ Michael Strahan in 2001 and matched by the Steelers’ T.J. Watt in 2021. He’ll have one more shot against the Bengals this Sunday.
But when Garrett brings up the sack record, he also typically brings up his tackles for loss. His 32 this year are the second-most in a single season going back to 1999, just behind J.J. Watt’s 39 for the Texans in 2012.
“I probably think about that (record) a little bit more because I’m further away and they’re a little bit harder to get,” Garrett said. “You can’t get any halves, you can’t be late. You can get a sack with no gain. You can’t get a TFL with no gains.”
But Garrett didn’t latch onto this philosophy by accident.
Schwartz is the one who has been hammering that point home week after week.
“You’re affecting the game if you get a TFL for minus-5 (yards) or you get a sack for minus-5,” Schwartz said. “It’s the same (expletive) thing. It affects the game the same way. But one gets glorified a lot more.”
Ever since Schwartz arrived in Cleveland, he’s insisted Garrett has a different level to his game, one he’s tried to help him unlock even after Garrett won his first NFL Defensive Player of the Year award in 2023.
While Schwartz isn’t crazy about comparisons among his current and former players, there is one for Garrett he’s used consistently over the last three seasons.
There’s only one player he’s seen impact opposing teams like Garrett, and it was Hall of Fame receiver Calvin Johnson while Schwartz was the head coach of the Detroit Lions.
Garrett’s 2025 season, Schwartz insists, is a lot like the 2012 season for Johnson, in which he set the NFL single-season receiving-yards record with 1,964 yards despite the Lions going 4-12.
“Every single game plan started with ‘Calvin Johnson is not beating us,’” Schwartz said. “We had a bunch of injuries. He was sort of a one-man show. We lost, it was just one of those seasons. But in a lot of ways similar to Myles in that, No. 1, everybody starts to game plan with him, which they have probably most of his career. But then No. 2, he hasn’t had that many opportunities to rush.”
The Browns are seeing an average of 28 pass attempts per game, the third-fewest in the league behind the Vikings and Bills.
Cleveland is No. 2 in sacks per pass attempt, just behind the Denver Broncos. But in total, the Broncos have seen 101 more pass attempts than the Browns this season. The last time Schwartz looked at the number, he said, Denver was plus-80.
“Jeez, that’s two games,” Schwartz said. “That’s two games of opportunities. And that’s what’s so impressive about Myles.”
The other impressive trait about Garrett, Schwartz said, is something he and defensive line coach Jacques Cesaire have spent a lot of time working on: Developing a good plan for when opponents “chip” him with an extra blocker or two before he takes on an offensive lineman.
“A couple of years ago when he would get chipped, he was always inside of it and you could sort of take him out that way,” Schwartz said. “And then it was just, ‘Well look, this is what it’s going to be. So let’s develop a good repertoire around it.’ And he has.”
In chasing this record, Garrett has said all the right things — that he wanted the record itself to come during a win, and that he would give sacks back if it meant more of them.
It’s easy to think that that sort of mentality has at least been partly inspired by his coordinator.
“I wish we could figure it all out a little bit sooner, but to play for Jim has been an honor and a privilege,” Garrett said. “He’s a great coach. He’s a great man of character and a great leader. So I just appreciate the fact that I’ve been coached by him and it has helped elevate my game and take it to the heights we see now.”
Sustained success
The Browns’ defensive success in the Schwartz era hasn’t just been about Garrett, however.
Cleveland remains the No. 2 defense this year in total yards per game (278.6). Over the last three years since Schwartz took over as coordinator, they are No. 1 in that stat.
Heading into Week 17 this year (stats weren’t yet updated after the Browns’ 13-6 win over the Steelers), the Browns have been the only team in the league to average below 300 opponent yards per game (297.5).
In that span, they are No. 1 on third-down conversion percentage allowed (33.9%), No. 1 on first downs allowed per game (16.4), No. 1 in tackles for loss (333), and No. 2 on fourth-down conversions allowed (42.6%).
On Sunday in their win against the Steelers, the Browns sacked Aaron Rodgers twice to give them 51 for the year — the most by any Browns team in a season. It surpasses the 49 they recorded in 2023 in Schwartz’s first year as coordinator.
What’s even impressive is that Cleveland has put up those numbers despite some sneaky personnel changes.
The linebacker corps is almost completely different than when Schwartz arrived, save for role player Mohamoud Diabate. Same with the defensive backfield, outside of Grant Delpit, Ronnie Hickman (who only played limited snaps in Schwartz’s first year), and Pro Bowler Denzel Ward.
On the defensive line, which Schwartz calls the engine of his system, there’s been a bit of a youth movement. The Browns have used their top draft pick in each of the last two years to take defensive tackles Mike Hall Jr. and Mason Graham. Instead of opting for a veteran edge opposite Garrett, they’ve developed their own draft picks Isaiah McGuire and Alex Wright, who just earned a three-year, $33 million extension in November.
“There’s been a lot more turnover than you really think,” Schwartz said. “We have Denzel, we have Grant and it’s Myles. And those are the only starters. … The fact that we’ve been able to maintain it through that, it’s been a big upheaval in that and the guys have been able to maintain based on that core of guys.”
So how has Schwartz done it?
It’s hard for even the players who have been around longest to dissect one of his biggest accomplishments over the last couple of years — especially considering what he’s done in a three-win 2024 and a four-win 2025.
“It’s not easy playing defense like that, especially being a high-ranked defense,” Delpit said. “I think that really speaks volume for the coach, the amount of impact that he has on his players and it really relates to our play on the field despite the circumstance. It’s really crazy if you think about it.”
The fact that Schwartz kept his unit focused throughout a year in which the offense and special teams have hindered them so much is a testament to how much players buy into his philosophy despite the wins not coming.
Browns cornerbacks coach Brandon Lynch has worked with Schwartz the last three years, but also played for him in 2004 when Schwartz was the defensive coordinator of the Tennessee Titans.
Lynch said the key is the way Schwartz gets his message across and keeps his standard the same. It’s an attack-first defense, and attack is what he expect his players and coaching staff to do, no matter the circumstance.
“You have to inspire and motivate your group,” Lynch said. “He talked about really having a premium on that and really simplifying, And with us simplifying and Jim’s scheme, he wants us to attack.
“From a teacher top-down, we’re all held to the same standard, and our standard is the best.”
Bloodbaths and pick-ups
After the Browns’ 31-29 loss to the Tennessee Titans in Week 14, in which they gave up a season-worst 184 rushing yards, Ward joked about walking into the defensive meeting room on “tippy toes” while on the lookout for Schwartz.
“Peeking around the corner, see if he’s in there,” Ward said with a smile. “He’s just got high expectations for us and that’s understandable.”
Jokes aside, Schwartz isn’t always looking to have his players walk around on tip toes, however.
He’s one of the most-involved coaches during practices. During the offseason program and training camp, he’ll regularly perch himself in the middle of a drill behind his linebackers to get the best view of his defenders, giving immediate corrections and teaching points. Occasionally, he’ll show up wearing a player’s jersey when they really impress.
The encouragement is really the key ingredient in the Schwartz secret sauce.
“Traditionally, as a coach, I have been a little bit more encouraging when you’ve had a bad (game),” Schwartz said.
There are exceptions to that, including last year’s 24-6 loss in Cincinnati when the Browns gave up 326 total yards.
“That was a bloodbath in our defensive meeting,” Schwartz said.
But for Schwartz, it all eventually evens out.
The most important trait he considers in himself as a coordinator is the ability to keep things level, regardless of outcome.
“There’s been other times where we’ve had some bloodbaths off of really good performances because maybe we were riding a little bit too high,” Schwartz continues. “And I try to keep them level through. Don’t let them get too high. Don’t let them get too low. There are exceptions. There have been some bloodbaths after poor performances, but you need to do those, too.”
‘In any business you aspire to the top’
That sense of balance — knowing when to push and when to pull back — didn’t develop overnight.
It’s a product of a career that has taken Schwartz through nearly every corner of the NFL, including a head coaching seat he hasn’t occupied in more than a decade.
But is there a world in which he could occupy that seat again?
“I’d certainly consider it,” Schwartz said. “I think in any business you aspire to the top. And I’m no different than other people in that way.”
Schwartz hasn’t been a head coach since his Lions tenure from 2009-13.
Since then, he’s served as a defensive coordinator in Buffalo, along with Philadelphia and Cleveland, and had his consulting stint in Tennessee.
The 59-year-old Schwartz may be fighting an uphill battle.
In recent years, the league has trended toward hiring younger, wunderkind, offensive-minded head coaches. Schwartz didn’t make any significant coaching search headlines even after the 2023 season in which the Browns finished as the top-ranked defense, made a playoff run, and Schwartz won the NFL Assistant Coach of the Year award.
But having been removed from the head coaching seat for more than a decade, there are things he would do differently now, if given the chance.
“I learned that all head coaching jobs aren’t the same and you need a pathway for success,” Schwartz said, before going on to recount all five of his seasons in Detroit.
In 2009 when Schwartz took over, it was on the heels of the Lions’ 0-16 season in which they were the laughingstock of the league. He said people across the NFL warned him that the job could be a “career killer.”
His first year they only won two games, but he was pleased with how competitively they played. In 2010, they won six games even as quarterback Matthew Stafford played in only three due to injury.
Then came the peak: A 2011 season in which the Lions went 10-6 with a playoff berth, the team’s first since 1999. They ultimately lost in the wild card round.
After that, 4-12 and 7-9 seasons, respectively, weren’t enough for Schwartz to keep his job.
“We had flipped the program so much that 7-9 was firable,” Schwartz said. “And looking back on that, I’d certainly like to win more games, but to turn that over that way and to make it where 7-9 is (firable), which I think before, the 20 years before might have been the high watermark.”
Schwartz knows what it’s like in the exact position that his current head coach Kevin Stefanski is in now.
After a three-win 2024 season and only four wins in 2025, there’s plenty of buzz and debate over the future of the two-time NFL Coach of the Year in Cleveland.
Schwartz is the first to point out the offensive personnel issues. Cleveland started nine different offensive-line combinations in their first 14 games this year, and started three different quarterbacks including two rookies in Dillon Gabriel and Shedeur Sanders.
“It’s been a tough year just with changing the quarterbacks and the injuries on the offensive line,” Schwartz said. “And then as that’s gone on and some of the other injuries, it’s zapped across a couple other areas.
“I know this: Kevin is the same dude the first day of training camp as he right now. And that helps everybody else, the whole coaching staff, to be able to do their job because he doesn’t let the highs or the lows change his approach and his manner. It’s been helpful for us.”
If Schwartz’s career has taught him one thing, it’s that seasons don’t always reflect the work put into them — and that the hardest part of coaching isn’t chasing success, but sustaining standards when it’s absent.
That’s what has defined his defense in Cleveland, even as the wins haven’t followed.
And with that thought, the 15 minutes are up.
Schwartz doesn’t linger.
There’s another meeting to get to and more work to do. Just like always.